this was a conversation i had with my brother's friend, the automotive fascist, once he found out i was serious about a car-for-life. the opening sentence has to do with him predicting, 15 years ago, that my del sol would go 100k miles, then fall apart.
his email first, my ***embedded response*** below.
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I'm quite certain that we define a bucket of bolts quite differently. However, I have sold Honda short over the years.
You've left out the possibility that Chrysler doesn't make it as long as you do. I could see you driving that turd-burglar for three decades. Call it "30 years of humiliation, b1-66er's test of human and mechanical endurance". Chrysler has little chance of making it that far.
I also bought a Chrysler product, a truck with a Cummins diesel. I also got a service manual (a free pdf I got off of a diesel freak blog). I bought it to use it hard and then have it recycled into whatever.
I do see a culture shift away from pure internal combustion but I see it driven by Europe's CO2 standards more than our government but things change. We may one day wake up.
&&&
I'm quite certain that we define a bucket of bolts quite differently.
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i'm quite certain that you're an automotive fascist.
***
However, I have sold Honda short over the years.
***
right.
***
You've left out the possibility that Chrysler doesn't make it as long as you do.
***
no.
i fully expect there will not be a chrysler in the future. in fact i'd say it's 50-50 that there'll be no chrysler by the end of the year and 95% that there won't be a chrysler by the end of 2009.
i'm *almost* as confident that there will be a contractual/financial obligation that GM and/or nissan/renault (it'll be 1 of those 2 that end up with it) will have to fulfill.
i expect the bumper-to-bumper wrap (and possibly the lifetime powertrain) to be offered for only the briefest glimpse of time. that's why i jumped on it as quickly as i did.
poke around on the internet ... there's a nearly infinite number of people who have a nearly infinite number of reasons that you shouldn't do what i've done here ... nearly all of them are either under-informed or just pessimistic at heart.
i've *never* had warranty work on *anything* questioned. and i, definitely, am johnny warranty.
i've got a really good chrysler shop right now. they fixed a rattle in the convertible mechanism -- something damn near every shop would ignore or not be able to fix. if those guys stay in some form of business in whatever the new world is, i should be okay-ish.
the car as a whole is remarkably solid and tight. extremely well put together. b1-67er and i rented a dodge calibre on our annual WY trip and that thing was a piece of crap (think electrical tape holding engine pieces flush). i don't know if it's the mexico vs. US build or what.
***
I could see you driving that turd-burglar for three decades.
***
i shouldn't be laughing at this.
***
Call it "30 years of humiliation, b1-66er's test of human and mechanical endurance". Chrysler has little chance of making it that far.
***
as a corporation, when you pick up chrysler, you pick up their financial obligations. the logo and company go away, the intellectual property (IP) doesn't. whoever owns the IP has to fulfill the contract, i'm nearly certain. (i'm positive that's true if it's insurance -- that's part of what insurance commissioners do -- i just don't know about warranty. whatever happens, it will have HEAVY government supervision.
***
I also bought a Chrysler product, a truck with a Cummins diesel. I also got a service manual (a free pdf I got off of a diesel freak blog). I bought it to use it hard and then have it recycled into whatever.
I do see a culture shift away from pure internal combustion but I see it driven by Europe's CO2 standards more than our government but things change. We may one day wake up.
***
nuke cars. that's what i'm waiting for.
***
2008-10-23
rhymes with "duck"
this from my brother, the world's best mechanical engineer, when i asked him about possibly buying a reusable air filter (with a 1M mile guarantee) and then continually cleaning it every oil change for the life of the car.
***
re: Reusable air filters SUCK
Reusable air filters fall under the broad umbrella of aftermarket automotive equipment that is almost unequivocally bad. My wife bought one of these for her Yaris without my knowledge. Her gas mileage dropped a couple MPG.
Air intakes are extensively engineered by car companies to optimize air flow and minimize noise in the engine compartment. They might have a few thousand hours of engineering in this system. The aftermarket guys think they're working hard if they throw 200 hours at a problem. K&N makes this reusable filter material then repackages it for 200 different cars. I'm sure they don't even check if it affects HP, noise, or mpg. They just check if it fits. You'll have people tell you that they are great. Ask them how they know that.
I believe my wife's car suffered because it was highly engineered for gas mileage and the K&N filter caused more resistance to incoming air flow (and possibly different flow such as turbulence).
Some of the aftermarket car parts guys make aftermarket motorcycle parts. EVERY aftermarket part used on the Indian Motorcycle had issues. And there were a lot of them. Fuel petcocks, fuel caps, coils, brakes etc, etc. Aftermarket automotive parts are underengineered.
***
re: Reusable air filters SUCK
Reusable air filters fall under the broad umbrella of aftermarket automotive equipment that is almost unequivocally bad. My wife bought one of these for her Yaris without my knowledge. Her gas mileage dropped a couple MPG.
Air intakes are extensively engineered by car companies to optimize air flow and minimize noise in the engine compartment. They might have a few thousand hours of engineering in this system. The aftermarket guys think they're working hard if they throw 200 hours at a problem. K&N makes this reusable filter material then repackages it for 200 different cars. I'm sure they don't even check if it affects HP, noise, or mpg. They just check if it fits. You'll have people tell you that they are great. Ask them how they know that.
I believe my wife's car suffered because it was highly engineered for gas mileage and the K&N filter caused more resistance to incoming air flow (and possibly different flow such as turbulence).
Some of the aftermarket car parts guys make aftermarket motorcycle parts. EVERY aftermarket part used on the Indian Motorcycle had issues. And there were a lot of them. Fuel petcocks, fuel caps, coils, brakes etc, etc. Aftermarket automotive parts are underengineered.
2008-10-22
caught up
for the first time in almost a year, i'm caught up.
there's some stuff i want to add here -- specifically total vehicle costs as well as a link to another continual car guy.
but for right here, right now, i'm even. and that's great.
there's some stuff i want to add here -- specifically total vehicle costs as well as a link to another continual car guy.
but for right here, right now, i'm even. and that's great.
2008-10-18
hot air
the airbag light flickered just a bit during normal driving today. i have no idea what's up with that, but i'll betcha it's just an anomaly. i'll mention it when i go for my next oil change, but that won't be for awhile.
2008-10-02
14,906 mile service
back to boardwalk for a coupon oil change (with windshield wipers this time) and a complaint on the trim coming off my sport bar (again).
i get a different service rep this time. he's a something like a german immigrant - super busy, heavily accented. i'm trying to get the point through that this trim work has been done before but it's not sticking.
"it has to stick." i'm not sticking. "i don't care what you do. you can wrap duct tape around the damn thing. i don't care. it just HAS to be a chrysler repair. i'm driving this car for life. right? see? FOR LIFE. you have to make a fix that you will approve of in the future. oh and those wipers? don't put 'em on the car, just put 'em in the backseat -- they don't need to be changed yet."
he nods, mumbles something in quasi-english. who the hell knows what's going to happen. i've done what i can. as the muslims say, "inshallah."
i get the car back. the wipers are in the back seat, still boxed. the trim is affixed to the sport bar and doesn't seem like it will come off.
i love you boardwalk chrysler. i really do.
$24.00
i get a different service rep this time. he's a something like a german immigrant - super busy, heavily accented. i'm trying to get the point through that this trim work has been done before but it's not sticking.
"it has to stick." i'm not sticking. "i don't care what you do. you can wrap duct tape around the damn thing. i don't care. it just HAS to be a chrysler repair. i'm driving this car for life. right? see? FOR LIFE. you have to make a fix that you will approve of in the future. oh and those wipers? don't put 'em on the car, just put 'em in the backseat -- they don't need to be changed yet."
he nods, mumbles something in quasi-english. who the hell knows what's going to happen. i've done what i can. as the muslims say, "inshallah."
i get the car back. the wipers are in the back seat, still boxed. the trim is affixed to the sport bar and doesn't seem like it will come off.
i love you boardwalk chrysler. i really do.
$24.00
2008-09-12
14,080 warranty service
i get a call from boardwalk and my trim has come in. great.
i take the car up and when i drop it off, i also drop the bigger bomb and explain the rattle. my service manager tells me it'll be two days -- he's certain they can get the trim done in a day but the rattle sounds tougher.
that's fine. i have a rental for up to five days, thanks for my bumper-to-bumper wrap so i drop it off.
the next day i get a call and the car's fixed. i get to boardwalk late enough that my service guy is gone (their service has pick-up until 19:00, which is really nice), so all i get to read is what's on the form they hand me when i get my keys.
the following is absolutely verbatim (and sic):
CUST STATES ON DRIVERS SIDE REAR BY QUARTER PANEL WILL HEAR RATTLE TYPE SOUND COMING FROM DRIVERS SIDE CONV. TOP WEN GOING OVER BUMPS...INSPECT DUPLICATED RATTLE WERE SUSPECTED HAD TO REMOVED SEATS AND ALL THE TRIM AROUND THE LR 1/4 PANNEL SINCE THE NOISE IS COMING FROM THERE AFTER REMOVING THE PARTS RE ROAD TESTED TO TRACE THE NOISEAND FOUND IT AT THE LR SOFT TOP MECHANISM,WIL TRY TO REPAIR DUE TO NO TSB,S RELATED TO THE COMPLAINT IN TH SYSTEM TO REFER TOO IN THIS CASE. SECURED THE L SIDE MECHANISM OF THE SOFT TOP THAT CONNECTS TO THE L PISTON AND RE ROAD TEST AND RATLE IS GONE THEN I PROCEDED TO RE INSTALL ALL REMOVED TRIM PIECES AND RE ROAD T TEST AND CONFIRMED THE RATTLE IS GONE NOW.
a couple of good things here. a TSB is car-speak for a technical service bulletin. it's the thing dealerships pass out to all dealers if there's a problem that continually crops up. so this means that: one, they actually looked at the TSBs and two, it's not an endemic problem (which sort of surprises me).
better though is their technique. THEY WERE ABLE TO REPRODUCE THE PROBLEM. this is a big deal. this is a classic kind of thing that dealers will claim they can't do and i thought i was going to have to put a tech in the car at gun point to make it happen. not here.
then they took it partially apart and re-tested to make sure it was still off. then they made what they thought was a fix. then road tested it to make sure they were right. then they put the car back together and they tested it again to make sure it was still gone.
right. right right right right right.
THIS IS THE WAY YOU FIX A PROBLEM. i don't care how illiterate or mangey their description on the page seems. hell, i'll take the description in chicken entrails and smoke signals if they can FIX THE FRICKEN PROBLEM.
i drive the car two blocks, hitting every bump and pothole i can find.
and they've done it. they've bloody well done it. they've fixed the problem.
this is a big deal. it's a tricky, hard problem that wasn't strictly by the book. PT cruiser convertibles are rare. i'll bet they only service a dozen of 'em on a regular basis, so they have to just make things up as they go. and this approach, NOT TO MENTION THE RESULT, is right-on.
full marks. way to go broadway.
i look at the trim replacement and it's obvious to me it'll come loose again. i don't care. i'll just take it back in when it does. it's one thing to have a piece of extended trim where i can't see it. my car sounding like a dishwasher that's loading every 200' is something else.
all other things being equal, and especially assuming i can get coupons and remain in northern CA, boardwalk has customer for life.
{for the future, a list of error codes can be found here:
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94489}
i take the car up and when i drop it off, i also drop the bigger bomb and explain the rattle. my service manager tells me it'll be two days -- he's certain they can get the trim done in a day but the rattle sounds tougher.
that's fine. i have a rental for up to five days, thanks for my bumper-to-bumper wrap so i drop it off.
the next day i get a call and the car's fixed. i get to boardwalk late enough that my service guy is gone (their service has pick-up until 19:00, which is really nice), so all i get to read is what's on the form they hand me when i get my keys.
the following is absolutely verbatim (and sic):
CUST STATES ON DRIVERS SIDE REAR BY QUARTER PANEL WILL HEAR RATTLE TYPE SOUND COMING FROM DRIVERS SIDE CONV. TOP WEN GOING OVER BUMPS...INSPECT DUPLICATED RATTLE WERE SUSPECTED HAD TO REMOVED SEATS AND ALL THE TRIM AROUND THE LR 1/4 PANNEL SINCE THE NOISE IS COMING FROM THERE AFTER REMOVING THE PARTS RE ROAD TESTED TO TRACE THE NOISEAND FOUND IT AT THE LR SOFT TOP MECHANISM,WIL TRY TO REPAIR DUE TO NO TSB,S RELATED TO THE COMPLAINT IN TH SYSTEM TO REFER TOO IN THIS CASE. SECURED THE L SIDE MECHANISM OF THE SOFT TOP THAT CONNECTS TO THE L PISTON AND RE ROAD TEST AND RATLE IS GONE THEN I PROCEDED TO RE INSTALL ALL REMOVED TRIM PIECES AND RE ROAD T TEST AND CONFIRMED THE RATTLE IS GONE NOW.
a couple of good things here. a TSB is car-speak for a technical service bulletin. it's the thing dealerships pass out to all dealers if there's a problem that continually crops up. so this means that: one, they actually looked at the TSBs and two, it's not an endemic problem (which sort of surprises me).
better though is their technique. THEY WERE ABLE TO REPRODUCE THE PROBLEM. this is a big deal. this is a classic kind of thing that dealers will claim they can't do and i thought i was going to have to put a tech in the car at gun point to make it happen. not here.
then they took it partially apart and re-tested to make sure it was still off. then they made what they thought was a fix. then road tested it to make sure they were right. then they put the car back together and they tested it again to make sure it was still gone.
right. right right right right right.
THIS IS THE WAY YOU FIX A PROBLEM. i don't care how illiterate or mangey their description on the page seems. hell, i'll take the description in chicken entrails and smoke signals if they can FIX THE FRICKEN PROBLEM.
i drive the car two blocks, hitting every bump and pothole i can find.
and they've done it. they've bloody well done it. they've fixed the problem.
this is a big deal. it's a tricky, hard problem that wasn't strictly by the book. PT cruiser convertibles are rare. i'll bet they only service a dozen of 'em on a regular basis, so they have to just make things up as they go. and this approach, NOT TO MENTION THE RESULT, is right-on.
full marks. way to go broadway.
i look at the trim replacement and it's obvious to me it'll come loose again. i don't care. i'll just take it back in when it does. it's one thing to have a piece of extended trim where i can't see it. my car sounding like a dishwasher that's loading every 200' is something else.
all other things being equal, and especially assuming i can get coupons and remain in northern CA, boardwalk has customer for life.
{for the future, a list of error codes can be found here:
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94489}
2008-08-29
12,039 mile service
time for another oil change. i'm going to try a different dealer -- from a service perspective it'd take a lot to be worse than stevens creek.
i have a coupon for boardwalk chrysler and even though they're 20 miles from my house and they aren't one of the legendary 5-star dealers (i have no idea what this means -- some goofy chrysler rating), they've gotta be worth a try.
i go up there and immediately the difference is painfully obvious. they feel fast and well-rehearsed. they're expecting me and pretty quickly take me in an talk to me.
i give them the coupon and show them the trim problem i have. even though i've talked to stevens creek about it twice now (and they've ordered the part for me, or at least claim they have), they've done nothing. this will be a good litmus test for boardwalk.
i get the car back in a day (and a call beforehand, something that stevens creek was missing) and i'm told that the trim part is on order. they'll call me when it's in.
i've heard this story before, but i won't persecute a company for another branch's crime.
$24.90 with, that's right, another air filter. and they even threw in a free tire rotation. so nice.
i have a coupon for boardwalk chrysler and even though they're 20 miles from my house and they aren't one of the legendary 5-star dealers (i have no idea what this means -- some goofy chrysler rating), they've gotta be worth a try.
i go up there and immediately the difference is painfully obvious. they feel fast and well-rehearsed. they're expecting me and pretty quickly take me in an talk to me.
i give them the coupon and show them the trim problem i have. even though i've talked to stevens creek about it twice now (and they've ordered the part for me, or at least claim they have), they've done nothing. this will be a good litmus test for boardwalk.
i get the car back in a day (and a call beforehand, something that stevens creek was missing) and i'm told that the trim part is on order. they'll call me when it's in.
i've heard this story before, but i won't persecute a company for another branch's crime.
$24.90 with, that's right, another air filter. and they even threw in a free tire rotation. so nice.
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